Tariffs didn’t bring manufacturing jobs back to the US | Decoder
Evan Smith, cofounder and CEO of Altana, was last on the show in early 2025 to talk about how Trump’s first few waves of tariffs were starting to affect global trade. It was a very alarming and also very illuminating chat; Evan and I got into the existential weeds of international relations and economics almost immediately. A year and a half later, and everything is somehow even more chaotic than it was the last time Evan and I talked — and that’s true about both trade and also the world of running a software company. Agentic AI, whack-a-mole tariff policy, war in Iran — we jumped right back into weeds yet again. 0:00 - Cold open: "Here's my take on Canada" 0:40 - Intro: Nilay Patel welcomes Evan Smith, CEO of Altana 2:43 - What Altana does and the "Globalization 1.0" thesis 5:38 - The Cervo AI acquisition 10:58 - Altana's size, structure, and Servo AI 12:33 - Decision-making and agentic product development 18:04 - Balancing reliability with new agentic software methods 22:34 - Token costs and pricing models 30:45 - History of customs targeting and post-9/11 risk systems 34:53 - Is manufacturing really moving out of China? 40:09 - Manufacturing output vs. manufacturing jobs 47:40 - "Here's my take on Canada" (the full answer) 52:43 - Strait of Hormuz and the military dimension of trade 1:00:53 - Federated data and network architecture 1:07:11 - Closing thoughts and outro Follow Decoder on TikTok: @decoderpod Follow Decoder on Instagram: @decoderpod Subscribe: http://goo.gl/G5RXGs Like The Verge on Facebook: https://goo.gl/2P1aGc Follow on Twitter: https://goo.gl/XTWX61 Follow on Instagram: https://goo.gl/7ZeLvX Follow on TikTok: http://bit.ly/42VeCVU Watch The Vergecast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/40RFRkg The Vergecast Podcast: https://bit.ly/3WQDexZ Decoder with Nilay Patel: http://apple.co/3v29nDc More about our podcasts: https://www.theverge.com/podcasts Read More: http://www.theverge.com Community guidelines: http://bit.ly/2D0hlAv Wallpapers from The Verge: https://bit.ly/2xQXYJr Shop our Verge merch store here: https://bit.ly/4kPCmEc If you buy something from a Verge link, Vox Media may receive a commission without exerting any influence on editorial content. For more information about our ethics policy, visit: https://bit.ly/3ZWTlLs
